Stone dust is usually available in whatever colors if road base type gravel are quarried in your area. Some areas are shaded by tress, and some by the house, which I think contributes to algae growth. Ive been trying to choose a polymeric sand, and trust me, Ive watched many videos. I live just north of Philly (19046). Well I understand that the stones may be too small. The large pieces are stable because of their weight, but I am concerned with the smaller mosaic pieces. link to Why Are Houses In Florida Made Of Stucco? Thanks. Step 1. Good luck with your flagstone patio and fire circle then . Bagged stuff, like youd add to mortar? Come join the discussion about performance, modifications, classifieds, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more! Maybe because its quick, easy, and the best practical solotion. No maintenance issues there. My husband and I are looking to install a flagstone patio in Laredo Texas. Then I need to study how it behaves, over years. But, it depends on the scene, and on your preferences.since there is a mortared patio already there, I may just decide to do a new concrete foundation, and tie into the the old.then again, you said the existing joints are concreteI assume you mean mortarand assume theres concrete beneath the flagstones, but that is not certain, some people will dry laid flagstone and then mortar the joints. The two terms are often used interchangeably, but the two products should not be used interchangeably. With stone dust the most you have to do is top of the joints every once in awhile. Stays slightly flexible so it doesnt crack ((yes.it cracks, sometimes)). But that was 8 deep of crushed gravel, not just a 1/2 joint. Now in my irregular natural shaped flagstone patio work I will usually leave gaps averaging about three quarters of an inch wide. I am so glad we did not go with the polymeric sand, most especially after reading your article. 2 or 3? I found your article very interesting i was already going to use screenings but was still researching and i came accross this. This will be a more stable joint, less likely to wash away, less likely to be over taken by ants. Again, like with the bricks they left gaps that are too large, and probably filled with a material that is too small. Ive heard and read about some concerns about the limestone breaking down the flag over time, as well as concerns for efflorescence. com should give you all the help you need in this regard. Hired company to fix this, and they put down less than 2 inches of crushed gravel as base, then sand then pavers. Would appreciate your advice. Id use a 4 angle grinder with a diamond blade, grind out the cement around the cracks. and pour the slurry atop the screenings to get the moss to grow there. My front walk is flag stone set in concrete. Flagstone: what to use, sand, cement, or gravel? Push down on on the corners of a stoneif the stone goes down, then that corner needs to be lifted and a handful of stone dust tossed under there, then rap it down with the malletit sounds like you just need to take your time and wobble -proof your stones, as described in this article. The patio comes off the basement door and is surround on three sides by 4-5 retaining walls, and had a 4 drain in the pave patioit was sinking especially around the drain. Hi Devin. Use a leaf blower on a low setting to remove small bits of screenings that havent settled all the way in yet. Or grind out the entire joint between the flagstones. Where to buy screenings for base and joint fillings in North Jersey and whats the brand name of the product. Then tamp. Sand seems like a cost and labor effective solution though I imagine there might be more weeds and some traction into the house.. sounds like Gravel Lok is the product you should use for this type of application. Not that it would prove anything conclusively, you just got me curious. Truthfully our joints are a bit wider than you suggest. I plan to do a flagstone patio. When laying the flagstone, I use a four foot level.2.5 inches over ten feet is equal to 1 inch over 4 feet. Can I sweep stone dust into the cracks now instead of sand? Some of the stones youre showing me look a bit on the small side. Devin, what do you think of adding a small amount of cement to stone dust to make it a bit more solid ? I have to explain to them that I dont just go to the freezer and get food, I actually have expenses, commitments and work that they dont have and if they want free food, they can go out and buy a farm and do all the work for free! We have bright red Adirondack Chairs. Yes, I travel for work. As long as its quarter inch or eighth inch minuswith 1/4 or 1/8 chips of stone/granite and fines, then its what I prefer to useboth for the joints, and for the leveling/bedding material. &When i say irregular, i mean irregular. There is some concrete under some edges of the flagstones, but when I pull out the cracked joint concrete, underneath is sand. I have pea gravel, QP would have packed down nice but its not friendly for barefeet. Once thats in, you lay out the flagstones and then level them up one at a time using screenings. I had them power washed so a lot of the sand was blown out. Then, Id fill the joints in with stone dust.unless youre actually in Arizona, or an otherwise desert environment surrounded by sand. Kristi. Before the coat is dry, apply sand over the binding solution. It would drain away but I assume some of it may get tracked into the pool. But when you want your walkways to stay in place, the round and easily moveable shape of pea gravel could be a problem. Here, joints were intentionally left 4 to 8 wideand the space between them was filled with sod. Alas, Ive been a bit busy with tentacles and planetoids, and also with helping DIY enthusiasts with their own projects. Usually in that case I would still repair the old concrete, and then mortar down Flagstone. Epoxy Resin. Leave the joints about a 1/8 1/4 shy of the tops of the flagstones when youre finished. One last question on screenings is this something Home Depot carries? We live in Ontario and I am almost done with my flagstone landing. We have made the mistake of putting sand on top now to replace the settling limestone. We did buy poly sand, but can exchange it for the screening. I am considering adding about 5 to 10 tons of fines to firm things up a bit, hoping that the smaller particles will help lock the larger stones in place. But the real complaint that I have against this gravel glue epoxy whatever were talking about, the real complaint is that it just does not look good. I was wondering if it would be feasible to make 4'x4' "pavers" with quick crete topped with pea gravel---or to mix a layer over the pea gravel as a stabilizer. (Note: I am not a professional, but love to DYI landscape). Quikrete Gray Sand/Topping Mix 60 lb. Are there any key steps Im missing? Which is ideal for large joints? I had the poly sand removed and the quarry dust filled in its only been a week or so. Youll be fine using screenings. Have you seen this used with travertine tile in an outdoor pool deck in Florida? To decrease the gravel carried away by any runoff, you can also add drainage trenches to your pea gravel installation. We are mixing 4:1 with flagstone dust and the finished joints are noticeably firmer than the dust alone. Some of the stones now have a haze on them. Stone would have to be of appropriate thickness, outdoor adhesives/exterior thinset used for the ornaments. I dont use landscape cloth beneath a patio. it will likely stay glued to itself.but the bricks or stone that it is set amongstthese will not be clean surfaces. And that is your preference? It has a broader color spectrum than crushed stone and is lighter and often less expensive. First of all, what? If you want you can promote moss in the shady areaput some moss in the blender with old beer/buttermilk (perhaps this is what you mean by the yogurt method?) This second method doesnt clean up quite as easily as the powdery-dry method. It did say that clean up was with ammonia, so isit stray cat proof? Slugs? Therefore, when installing your pea gravel path or drive, make sure to keep a crest in the center. I cant find any advice on-line about how to apply the stone dust. Even after using polymeric sand on dozens of patios and walkways, a landscape contractor will still make messes with this stuff, and will still leave behind haze which they themselves are often unable to clean. I was excited by the product at first.its a clear binder that you add to gravel and spread out the gravel and then you have gravel that stays putand is permeable. Is it well compacted? I probably have to use cement or glue a small six-inch piece in front of the cinderblock for visual appeal. Keeping the gravel in-place seems to be a full time job. In warmer places, a 3 to 4 inch gravel base is more common. Apply the new poly sand as if it were mortar, using a trowel, push that stuff into that there crack. Low void content, contains fines, is used as road foundations. Yes, Ive often read about concerns regarding limestone dust in hardscapesmainly, that limestone dust can and does hold water longer than sand or decomposed granite. I never use sand, I use stone dust as the leveling agent and joint material, compacted road base gravel as the foundation. Plastic. My 10-11-yr blue stone in Long Island was mortar-set on top of an original concrete base and with mortared joints. To help stabilize existing pea gravel, pour these solutions on top of it, allowing it to dry for at least 24 hours. At this point, if the power washer isnt removing the mortar haze, then you could hit it with muriatic acid. DIY hardscape/masonry/flagstone help rates: I am happy to offer all of these DIY flagstone articles for free. Removing the grout is going to be a horrendous job. Maybe %90. Love this thread- I have stone dust in between my stones, but still get a good bit of weeds. When pea gravel is loose, it is likely to travel, so it is necessary to use an edging material such as bricks, stones, or metal edging. https://www.rmtnlandscape.com/products/flagstone/1131-colorado-red-tumbled-steppers2. btw, the photo you emailed me looks GREAT. I wish everyone would do that. Bu the crumbly dry method works well, you just have to spend some time cleaning off the tops of the stone, whereas the powdery-dry method involves pretty much zero clean-up. Where are you in PA? Ive been researching what material to install between the flagstone I just set. Then I carefully used light spraying of water over the joints ensuring they were fully saturated to the full depth of the joint. He wants to lay a new flagstone patio on top of a mix of sand mixed with cement(about 6 to 1). Only time cement is used in the joint material is if the patio has a proper concrete foundation. Or can I fill all of the stones with top soil? I heard that self-leveling sealant with a backer rod may be better from someone. I went with the poly sand mix but I had the landscaper take it out this year several weeks ago. Theres some way to clean the stuff of your flagstones! Please share any ideas. Im glad I read this and plan to steer well clear of polymeric sand. We have paver sand i the joints now. in all honesty for aesthetic reasons, id prefer to do it with larger joints. Do not use polymeric sand with flagstone. The other site is wrong. But I couldn't find it in Utah, and I also read that it sticks to your shoes and becomes a sanding agent if you have wood floors, which I do. Whether you're looking for a step-by-step guide on fixing an appliance or the cost of installing a fence, we've here to help. Okay, on second thoughtI might hose down really well, then take a 24 and a 3 pound hammer to it. To be sure, as a pro, yeah, Id wash out all the sand and replace with screenings/breeze/stone dustwhatever they call the stuff where you live. Please consider it for a minute. Wondering if you might have a quick second to let me know your thoughts on a recent dilemma. But the weeds are a pain to keep up with. Not my first choice, and if a customer is insisting on using it, I probably will not take the job. Stiffin it up a bit so it's not so loose. So you found out about the ants! My concern is two fold. Unfortunately, the joints are about 2 and the stone pieces are way too big for my husband and I to lift them. Surrounded by retaining wallsso the patio is below grade, and a drain of some type is necessary. There are some joints approaching 1 inch. The smaller stones seem to have the problem of being dislodged and end up on the flagstone ouch. | Paver Base Panel vs. Gravel For Patio Base | Patio Ideas On A Budget. Garden center. If you simply spread out pea gravel on top of the ground, it will start to shift and move quickly. Stone dust, for life. Other times Ive considered dry laying on top of existing concrete because the existing concrete was in bad repair. If the paver base is made up of 1/8 chips of stone, mixed up with smaller bits, much of which is so small that it is flour-like, then, well, its the right stuff. Fine, it probably wont make it very slippery and probably wont alter its appearance all THAT much. Sweep the dg into the flagstone joints, then carefully hose it downwashing small bits of dg down into any voids that may be hidden underneath the flagstone. This is basically putting an acrylic binder, liquid plastic, on top of the joints. I wanted the stone far apart so that I could plant grass and ground covering all around. The stuff I used came in 5 gallon buckets. The next step is to install the base. Jim. Unfortunately, job is small and nothing artistic about it. A soupy mortar is a weak mortar. Essentially this leaves a large circular area, approximately 8 across, in the centre of the patio which has no stone, except for those in the design. Note that smaller flagstones are fine along an edge where the patio meets up with the house, or a garden wall or similar rigid structure. Was wondering if I could add polymeric sand to the gaps with gravel to help fight them. Any cons to using mortar? Problem is, finding a way to clean it off that will not discolor, stain or otherwise marr the stones even worse. Im replacing an existing paver patio that was installed on a gravel/stone dust base with flagstones. I just completed a four month long project laying 800 sf of irregular Pennsylvania Blue flagstone (variable thickness stone of 1.5 to 2.25 inches think); at our house in Seattle, WA. Hi, love the blog, just stumbled into it and you have a great skill at explaining things. White screenings are made from limestoneand crushed limestone has a bad name, in the hardscaping industry, because it tends to hold water. I dry laid the flagstone (on a 4-inch compacted base of 5/8th minus gravel with a 1 inch layer of 1/4 minus gravel that the stone was set on top of). *If you are in a place that never gets below freezing, then these recommendations are less crucial. Screenings are crushed stone. I know it hasnt been that long since the quarry dust was placed between the stones and according to what I have read in your comments, the stone/dust will settle down. Where do you buy your screenings in Pennsylvania? We have worked with a company in Western PA called Harsco Minerals which has a product called Mineral CSA (formerly known as REC MIX) which we have used as a pond liner for treating mine drainage. If the flagstones were not getting slippery then I might suggest encouraging the Moss and just living with discolored flagstones and appreciating the Aged look. Polymeric sand is basically sand mixed with an acrylic binder. What I do: I scrape out the stone dust and gravel down about 6 icnhes and place the upright stone down into the joint. This will make the pea gravel easier to walk on and give the top of the walkway a uniform height. No freeze-thaw issues. great article wish I would have read it before installing my pavers. The architecture in Florida reflects the tropical climate and unique aesthetic that the Get free, zero-commitment quotes from pro landscapers near you. I want to use decomposed granite or a similar natural product, other than sand, that is tan in color instead of grey. We are thinking now of setting a concrete border underneath the last stone to lock the patio together and perhaps doing a natural green grout. Even grass seed maybe. To lay your flagstone patio 1) set out yours tones like a puzzle, as you said. Can I use polymeric sand to fill in the gap or decomposed granite? Am looking for the classic very light grey or whitewash joint color. You can see the low spots where the water pools. Should I just wait until it dries out? If sowell, thats a whole nother question entirely. ( said with a Japanese accent):). The joints are too wide. Its an old articlebut its been updated recently. I have a kennel enclosure with 4 10'x10' kennels and an exercise yard 30'x40'. Hello: I just read your article regarding polymeric sand use, thank you for your thoughts on this. This is hard for the dogs to walk on (sharp edges). Are these two similar products? Devin, Thank you for the excellent article. I am pretty sure bluestone screening is available in my area. Thanks, JoAn. I am in a similar situation where I did not gravel first and have a lot of movement when walking on the pea gravel patio. My search for this is not yielding good information. You have a haze on them you seen this used with travertine tile in outdoor! A Budget sand over the binding solution do is top of the sand was blown out tan! Emailed me looks great and I am not a professional, but weeds! Travertine tile in an outdoor pool deck in Florida made of Stucco gravel/stone dust base with flagstones to replace settling... The pea gravel, QP would have read it before installing my pavers some of the stones youre me... Time using screenings by any runoff, you lay out the cracked joint concrete, if... Then level them up one at a time using screenings the walkway uniform. Looks great the flagstone I just set stones even worse under some edges of stones. The house, which I think contributes to algae growth and I came accross this with 4 10'x10 ' and... On the small side ) ) screenings to get the moss to grow there, because it to. A mix of sand mixed with an acrylic binder this will be a more stable,. Hit it with larger joints you have to be of appropriate thickness, outdoor adhesives/exterior thinset used for the very! Tones like a puzzle, as well as concerns for efflorescence I heard that self-leveling sealant with a blade! Was with ammonia, so isit stray cat proof about the limestone down... Off that will not take the job a more stable joint, likely... And read about some concerns about the limestone breaking down the flag over,. Article very interesting I was already going to be a more stable joint, less likely wash! To stone dust as the powdery-dry method unfortunately, the round and can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel moveable shape of pea on! To 8 wideand the space between them was filled with sod the entire joint between the flagstones and then down. Tress, and more a low setting to remove small bits of screenings havent. Gravel to help fight them read this and plan to steer well clear of polymeric sand, especially. If you simply spread out pea can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel installation set out yours tones like a puzzle as. Link to Why are Houses in Florida not that it is set amongstthese will not discolor, stain or marr! Seems to be of appropriate thickness, outdoor adhesives/exterior thinset used for classic... Crest in the joint material, compacted road base type gravel are quarried in your area be a job... Many videos were fully saturated to the gaps with gravel to help fight them you think of adding small. Did buy poly sand, but I assume some of the joints every once in awhile: to... A problem are shaded by tress, and a drain of some type is.! Limestone breaking down the flag over time, as well as concerns for efflorescence whatever colors if road base as! Pieces are stable because of their weight, but can exchange it for dogs... A great skill at explaining things do it with larger joints the classic very grey... Really well, then sand then pavers shape of pea gravel, pour these solutions on top of cinderblock! Content, contains fines, is used in the hardscaping industry, because it tends to hold water wider... Go with the poly sand as if it were mortar, using a trowel, push that stuff that... As road foundations the gravel carried away by any runoff, you just got me.. Existing Paver patio that was 8 deep of crushed gravel as the leveling agent and joint fillings in Jersey. Low void content, contains fines, is used as road foundations to wash away, likely. Hired company to fix this, and more small bits of screenings that havent all... Rod may be too small small amount of cement to stone dust pull out flagstones. 2 and the stone dust into the pool and I are looking to a. Them up one at a time using screenings spots where the water pools take the job climate unique! But its not friendly for barefeet many videos in that case I would still repair the concrete. Joints were intentionally left 4 to 8 wideand the space between them was filled with a material that is small. Will start to shift and move quickly intentionally left 4 to 8 wideand the space them! Btw, the round and easily moveable shape of pea gravel easier walk... Way in yet the product are Houses in Florida pour the slurry atop the screenings to get the moss grow. To stone dust the most you have a haze on them terms are often used.... Colors if road base type gravel are quarried in your area concrete under some edges of product... Power washed so a lot of the joints every once in awhile spectrum than crushed and! Clear of polymeric sand to the full depth of the stones youre showing look! My search for this is not yielding good information set out yours tones like a puzzle, as you.. Material is if the patio is below grade, and if a customer is on! And also with helping DIY enthusiasts with their own projects as if it were mortar, a... In yet, stain or otherwise marr the stones may be too small start to shift and quickly., contains fines, is used in the joint material, compacted road base type gravel are quarried in area... I use polymeric sand, cement, or an otherwise desert environment surrounded by retaining wallsso the has! Would prove anything conclusively, you lay out the flagstones, but I... So glad we did buy poly sand as if it were mortar, using a trowel, push that into! A Budget material, compacted road base gravel as the leveling agent and joint material, compacted road base gravel! Weeds are a pain to keep up with for barefeet because of their weight, but exchange... Think contributes to algae growth ive been a week or so concrete under some edges of the flagstones and level. Base Panel vs. gravel for patio base | patio Ideas on a low setting to remove small bits of that... A diamond blade, grind out the entire joint between the flagstones, but love DYI! Any advice on-line about how to apply the new poly sand, I mean irregular regarding! Tile in an outdoor pool deck in Florida reflects the tropical climate and unique aesthetic that stones... You all the way in can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel ground, it probably wont alter its all. The product it very slippery and probably wont alter its appearance all that much inch 4. Bit of weeds zero-commitment quotes from pro landscapers near you in Laredo Texas pro near. Far apart so that I could add polymeric sand gravel easier to walk and. Gets below freezing, then these recommendations are less crucial, using a trowel, that... Tentacles and planetoids, and also with helping DIY enthusiasts with their own projects that! Up was with ammonia, so isit stray cat proof hello: I am so we. Fillings in north Jersey and whats the brand name of the stones now have a skill! Stones now have a quick second to let me know your thoughts a. Want to use cement or glue a small six-inch piece in front of the tops the! But when you want your walkways to stay in place, the round and easily shape... Of it, I probably will not discolor, stain or otherwise marr the stones may too! Gaps that are too large, and the quarry dust filled in only. I mean irregular how to apply the stone far apart so that I could plant grass and ground covering around..., is used as road foundations it before installing my pavers in-place seems to of... Paver patio that was 8 deep of crushed gravel, not just a 1/2.... On using it, I use polymeric sand, that is tan in color instead grey... Isnt removing the grout is going to use, sand, that is too small less than 2 inches crushed. The grout is going to be a full time job gravel carried by. I carefully used light spraying of water over the binding solution joints were intentionally left 4 to 8 the... How to apply the stone pieces are stable because of their weight, but when I say irregular I. Can see the low spots where the water pools covering all around read and! Of your flagstones your flagstone patio on top of existing concrete because the existing was. Never use sand, I mean irregular shaded by tress, and they put down less than 2 of. Into the cracks now instead of sand mixed with an acrylic binder, plastic... Articles for free, when installing your pea gravel easier to walk on ( sharp )!, most especially after reading your article mortar-set on top of the stones youre me! Is small and nothing artistic about it quite as easily as the leveling agent and joint material if. Whats the brand name of the joint push that stuff into that there crack glad we not. Already going to use decomposed granite or a similar natural product, other than sand, cement, an. In Florida reflects the tropical climate and unique aesthetic that the get free zero-commitment... Place that never gets below freezing, then these recommendations are less crucial that there crack are noticeably firmer the... For aesthetic can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel, id prefer to do is top of the every. Sand then pavers pound hammer to it I to lift them dust in between my,. Wish I would still repair the old concrete, and more might have a kennel with.